Comments on: Ask Your Bartender: Advice for a High School Senior http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/ Jeffrey Morgenthaler writes about bartending and mixology from Portland, Oregon Mon, 10 Jun 2013 18:25:19 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Boy Named Sous http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/comment-page-1/#comment-6265 Boy Named Sous Wed, 09 May 2007 05:42:00 +0000 http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/#comment-6265 Hey, I have to throw in and echo your praise of the LCC Culinary Arts program -- I'm a student there myself. I also agree with your advice that sych experience is good for a bartender -- just as experience waiting, bussing, doing dishes, etc. is good for a cook. The dining experience is about more than the food, and even this early in my training, I'm seeing how important it is that every aspect of the guest's experience be handled with the same care and dedication, and how dependent on each other everyone in this industry is. If the food sucks, great service isn't going to matter, and conversely, very few cooks are good enough that people will wade through shitty service to eat their food. One of the things that has grated on me, but I've come to appreciate, is that they put us through front-of-the-house training in the LCC program. Hey, I have to throw in and echo your praise of the LCC Culinary Arts program — I’m a student there myself. I also agree with your advice that sych experience is good for a bartender — just as experience waiting, bussing, doing dishes, etc. is good for a cook. The dining experience is about more than the food, and even this early in my training, I’m seeing how important it is that every aspect of the guest’s experience be handled with the same care and dedication, and how dependent on each other everyone in this industry is. If the food sucks, great service isn’t going to matter, and conversely, very few cooks are good enough that people will wade through shitty service to eat their food. One of the things that has grated on me, but I’ve come to appreciate, is that they put us through front-of-the-house training in the LCC program.

]]> By: C http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/comment-page-1/#comment-5947 C Fri, 04 May 2007 08:49:06 +0000 http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/#comment-5947 Funny you should mention cooking and cocktails, I was just perusing the El Bulli menu (one can dream...) and came across these beauties: http://www.elbulli.com/catalogo/catalogo/todo_anyo.php?lang=en&id_familia=1&id=1094 I think the latest ones are particularly interesting, wouldn't mind tasting a couple... Funny you should mention cooking and cocktails, I was just perusing the El Bulli menu (one can dream…) and came across these beauties:
http://www.elbulli.com/catalogo/catalogo/todo_anyo.php?lang=en&id_familia=1&id=1094

I think the latest ones are particularly interesting, wouldn’t mind tasting a couple…

]]> By: K http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/comment-page-1/#comment-5908 K Wed, 02 May 2007 23:34:07 +0000 http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/#comment-5908 Wow, I feel so cool that you posted that! Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for all the help, and have fun this Saturday! ~K Wow, I feel so cool that you posted that!
Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for all the help, and have fun this Saturday!
~K

]]> By: Joe Bartender http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/comment-page-1/#comment-5905 Joe Bartender Wed, 02 May 2007 22:17:55 +0000 http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/#comment-5905 I will second (or third) the recommendation for cooking training. It's good for so many different reasons. But I guess it depends on the type of bartender you are aspiring to be. I've always wanted to be as well rounded and know about as many different things as possible. Knowledge of how to combine ingredients for cooking has really helped me to think about bartending more as mixology as opposed to slamming drinks. And as Robert Rodriquez has said: Not knowing how to cook is like not knowing how to fuck. I will second (or third) the recommendation for cooking training. It’s good for so many different reasons. But I guess it depends on the type of bartender you are aspiring to be. I’ve always wanted to be as well rounded and know about as many different things as possible. Knowledge of how to combine ingredients for cooking has really helped me to think about bartending more as mixology as opposed to slamming drinks.

And as Robert Rodriquez has said: Not knowing how to cook is like not knowing how to fuck.

]]> By: erik_flannestad http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/comment-page-1/#comment-5904 erik_flannestad Wed, 02 May 2007 21:30:59 +0000 http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/#comment-5904 Jeffrey, It is certainly never bad to be able to cook for yourself nor to have additional career options after you graduate. I know I couldn't cook before I started working in restaurants. In addition, being able to cook was the only way I could get a job after my wife and I moved from WI to CA. I was just trying to think if I knew anyone who had ever made the transition from cook to bartender or bartender to cook. Not being able to think of any examples, I was trying to think of why that might be. Jeffrey,

It is certainly never bad to be able to cook for yourself nor to have additional career options after you graduate.

I know I couldn’t cook before I started working in restaurants.

In addition, being able to cook was the only way I could get a job after my wife and I moved from WI to CA.

I was just trying to think if I knew anyone who had ever made the transition from cook to bartender or bartender to cook.

Not being able to think of any examples, I was trying to think of why that might be.

]]> By: Natalie http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/comment-page-1/#comment-5901 Natalie Wed, 02 May 2007 20:43:13 +0000 http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/#comment-5901 Hey Jeff, You make so many good points... and I especially like that you point out cooking classes. I could not agree more that the Master Mixologists have an understanding of what goes into creating a culinary masterpiece. We will be seeing more of that in the future. Hey Jeff,
You make so many good points… and I especially like that you point out cooking classes. I could not agree more that the Master Mixologists have an understanding of what goes into creating a culinary masterpiece. We will be seeing more of that in the future.

]]> By: Jeffrey http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/comment-page-1/#comment-5896 Jeffrey Wed, 02 May 2007 19:36:48 +0000 http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/#comment-5896 Erik, you're right: the skill sets are a bit different, but I think that should change. Sure, most cooks would make bad bartenders. Most bartenders would make bad cooks. But is it because the two jobs are that different, or is it really because a sort of chasm has grown between the bar and kitchen? A lot of cooks I know would have a hard time speaking to a customer. Is that because the nature of cooking is antisocial, or is it because so many antisocial individuals have gravitated to kitchen work? A lot of bartenders I know couldn't prepare a meal to save their lives. Is this because bartending is really that different from cooking, or is it because the craft of working with ingredients to create something delicious has been bred out of bartenders through the proliferation of pre-made mixers, flavorless spirits and a binge-drinking mentality? How could expediting or grill training be bad for a bartender? I know many bartenders that don't know how to prioritize or multitask or expedite their own tickets. When there are two or more of us behind my bar, we work together toward a single objective, much like a sports team. I encourage my staff to stay vocal and communicative (much like a good kitchen does), I encourage them not to isolate their station (much like a good kitchen does) and I train them to watch each other's work and catch any flaws or inconsistencies before the product leaves the bar. Much like a good kitchen does. In addition to learning these valuable skill sets in cooking school, K will also learn presentation, how to pair flavors, how to create a well-balanced dish, and how to utilize more ingredients than you and I ever thought possible. I don't know, but it sounds like a win-win situation to me. Any takers? Erik, you’re right: the skill sets are a bit different, but I think that should change.

Sure, most cooks would make bad bartenders. Most bartenders would make bad cooks. But is it because the two jobs are that different, or is it really because a sort of chasm has grown between the bar and kitchen?

A lot of cooks I know would have a hard time speaking to a customer. Is that because the nature of cooking is antisocial, or is it because so many antisocial individuals have gravitated to kitchen work?

A lot of bartenders I know couldn’t prepare a meal to save their lives. Is this because bartending is really that different from cooking, or is it because the craft of working with ingredients to create something delicious has been bred out of bartenders through the proliferation of pre-made mixers, flavorless spirits and a binge-drinking mentality?

How could expediting or grill training be bad for a bartender? I know many bartenders that don’t know how to prioritize or multitask or expedite their own tickets.

When there are two or more of us behind my bar, we work together toward a single objective, much like a sports team. I encourage my staff to stay vocal and communicative (much like a good kitchen does), I encourage them not to isolate their station (much like a good kitchen does) and I train them to watch each other’s work and catch any flaws or inconsistencies before the product leaves the bar. Much like a good kitchen does.

In addition to learning these valuable skill sets in cooking school, K will also learn presentation, how to pair flavors, how to create a well-balanced dish, and how to utilize more ingredients than you and I ever thought possible.

I don’t know, but it sounds like a win-win situation to me. Any takers?

]]> By: erik_flannestad http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/comment-page-1/#comment-5892 erik_flannestad Wed, 02 May 2007 17:56:21 +0000 http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/#comment-5892 I dunno about the cooking school advice. While it never hurts to have multiple options when looking for jobs, in my experience, most cooks would make bad bartenders. Maybe the world has changed since I last worked in food service, but, the skill sets, while slightly complementary, are a bit different. Mostly, as a cook, you almost never have to talk to customers or handle money. You also are given a much more defined role within the organization of the kitchen. You will be responsible for the grill or salads or expediting during service, not (hopefully) all three, while talking to customers at the same time. Cooking is very much a team sport, unlike bartending. That is to say, the kitchen staff works as a whole, much like a sports team, to a single objective. This work dynamic is very different from the mostly singular dynamic of tending bar. I dunno about the cooking school advice. While it never hurts to have multiple options when looking for jobs, in my experience, most cooks would make bad bartenders.

Maybe the world has changed since I last worked in food service, but, the skill sets, while slightly complementary, are a bit different.

Mostly, as a cook, you almost never have to talk to customers or handle money. You also are given a much more defined role within the organization of the kitchen. You will be responsible for the grill or salads or expediting during service, not (hopefully) all three, while talking to customers at the same time.

Cooking is very much a team sport, unlike bartending. That is to say, the kitchen staff works as a whole, much like a sports team, to a single objective. This work dynamic is very different from the mostly singular dynamic of tending bar.

]]> By: Lonnie Bruner http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/comment-page-1/#comment-5877 Lonnie Bruner Wed, 02 May 2007 00:35:24 +0000 http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/#comment-5877 Such a sweet letter! Such a sweet letter!

]]> By: Jeffrey http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/comment-page-1/#comment-5869 Jeffrey Tue, 01 May 2007 20:41:21 +0000 http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/#comment-5869 Thanks, Sean #1! You make a great point when you say that you never stop learning. There's so much information out there, and I find new articles, blogs and websites every day. The internet is all about the exchange of ideas and information, so always be sure to stop in here and share what you've learned with the rest of us! Sean #2, I feel for you. I was fortunate enough to stumble upon bartending (I literally flipped a coin between two job offers on the same day) and I've never really had to pound the pavement since that day. But if you're serious about getting in there, I might recommend <a href="http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2006/ask-your-bartender-bartending-schools/" title="Ask Your Bartender: Bartending Schools" rel="nofollow">this bit of advice</a> I gave to someone in your predicament a while ago. There's lots of great advice in the comments, as well. Good luck, and cheers to all! Thanks, Sean #1! You make a great point when you say that you never stop learning. There’s so much information out there, and I find new articles, blogs and websites every day. The internet is all about the exchange of ideas and information, so always be sure to stop in here and share what you’ve learned with the rest of us!

Sean #2, I feel for you. I was fortunate enough to stumble upon bartending (I literally flipped a coin between two job offers on the same day) and I’ve never really had to pound the pavement since that day. But if you’re serious about getting in there, I might recommend this bit of advice I gave to someone in your predicament a while ago. There’s lots of great advice in the comments, as well.

Good luck, and cheers to all!

]]> By: Sean http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/comment-page-1/#comment-5867 Sean Tue, 01 May 2007 20:09:03 +0000 http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/#comment-5867 Jeffrey, I'm glad you answered that question because I was just about to ask it myself. Now to pose a different situation, I have a (short lived) food industry background, I'm a year away from graduating with my bachelors degree in marketing/management and I find myself more and more fascinated with the hospitality industry then anything else. I've been working to obtain a bartending job for the past year (Since I've been 21, they rarely hire anyone under here) but I find that because I don't have the practical bartending experience. Now, I have studied bartending guides, experimented with drinks and read your blog daily for some time now but I still do not get the position. With all the bartending training sites on the internet, where is a credible bartending school at? or should I explore some proper culinary training? Thanks Jeffrey,

I’m glad you answered that question because I was just about to ask it myself.

Now to pose a different situation, I have a (short lived) food industry background, I’m a year away from graduating with my bachelors degree in marketing/management and I find myself more and more fascinated with the hospitality industry then anything else.

I’ve been working to obtain a bartending job for the past year (Since I’ve been 21, they rarely hire anyone under here) but I find that because I don’t have the practical bartending experience. Now, I have studied bartending guides, experimented with drinks and read your blog daily for some time now but I still do not get the position.

With all the bartending training sites on the internet, where is a credible bartending school at? or should I explore some proper culinary training?

Thanks

]]> By: Sean Bigley http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/comment-page-1/#comment-5866 Sean Bigley Tue, 01 May 2007 20:07:48 +0000 http://www.jeffreymorgenthaler.com/2007/ask-your-bartender-advice-for-a-high-school-senior/#comment-5866 K- Make sure you follow Jeff's advice! I agreee with all the advice he gave you. From my standpoint, one of the greatest things about bartending, is the people you meet. Of course, this can also be a downside too. Not only have I made great friends across the bar, but behind the stick as well. Bartending has been great to me. I've travelled the world and made some really great friends. (Yes, Jeff, that means you) My advice is if your going to do something, do it right, no matter what it is. Follow your passion. Sounds like you're on the right track for sure. Learn all you can and remember, you NEVER stop learning. Cheers to a successful career! Sean K-

Make sure you follow Jeff’s advice! I agreee with all the advice he gave you. From my standpoint, one of the greatest things about bartending, is the people you meet. Of course, this can also be a downside too. Not only have I made great friends across the bar, but behind the stick as well. Bartending has been great to me. I’ve travelled the world and made some really great friends. (Yes, Jeff, that means you)

My advice is if your going to do something, do it right, no matter what it is. Follow your passion. Sounds like you’re on the right track for sure. Learn all you can and remember, you NEVER stop learning.

Cheers to a successful career!

Sean

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