If there’s one thing I hate about living in the Pacific Northwest, it’s the stretch of time from late October until late June, when the sun makes only the most occasional of appearances. I typically pack on an extra 10-15 pounds during those rainy months, party due to over-consumption of wintertime drinks like dark beer, egg nog, hot-buttered-anything and wassail. I wanted a drink for the winter that I could add to my cocktail menu that was more like the light, café-style cocktails I typically gravitate to during the summer.
Jerry Thomas prescribed a drink called “sangaree” that, to the best of our knowledge was a colonial adaptation of the Spanish “sangria”. The recipe, which calls for anywhere from 1½ to 4 ounces of port, Madeira, gin or brandy dolled up with sugar and dusted with nutmeg in a glass sounded less than exciting to me, but the challenge of updating this old chestnut sounded like a fun January task.
We began with ruby and tawny ports but found both way too sweet. White port got us much closer to our target, but it wasn’t until a healthy dose of dry vermouth was applied that we knew we were on to something. To provide additional depth and hint at the drink’s colonial origins we sweetened with a maple-nutmeg syrup and finished the whole thing off with a teaspoon of allspice liqueur and orange oil.
The Dry Vermouth Sangaree
3 oz dry vermouth
½ oz maple-nutmeg syrup*
1 tsp St. Elizabeth Allspice Dram
1 large strip orange peel
Shake everything – yes, even the orange peel – with ice until well-chilled and strain into a cold cocktail glass. Garnish with a fresh strip of orange peel.
*To make maple-nutmeg syrup, combine 8 ounces each of Grade B maple syrup and water, and 1 tbsp freshly-grated nutmeg. Simmer, covered, for 20 minutes. Let cool, strain out solids, bottle and chill.
My problem with homemade tonic water has always been a flavor profile that was too esoteric for the general audience. This recipe takes some of the positive qualities people have come to understand from commercial tonic water and updated them with fresh ingredients.
One question I'm often asked is "Do you have any drink-related book recommendations?" Well, funny you should ask, I've compiled a list of the ten books every professional bartender or home mixologist should own. I keep every one of these close at hand and have read most of them several times. I suggest you do the same.
The problem with living in Oregon is the absence of little wooden shacks by the sea that sell cases of fresh ginger beer stacked on back porches. But with some readily-available ingredients, a recipe I've been revising for several years - and a few free minutes - I can easily transport myself to a little fishing boat on the ocean as I sip a Dark and Stormy made with fresh, house-made ginger beer.
It's always mojito season somewhere, so this advice is timely in your area about half the year. Wether you're making them or simply enjoying them, this advice will help you look like a pro in no time at all.
The flavors of the Richmond Gimlet are imbued with sunshine. Fresh mint mingling with the herbaceousness of gin and the tartness of lime have made this drink a Eugene classic for many years now.
You'll get a lot of snarky advice on this site about how to make a proper drink, but if you ever need to know what not to do, this is the video for you.
Not to be confused with the Spanish wine-and-fruit-based alcoholic beverage sangria, sangrita (meaning "little blood") is a traditional accompaniment to a tequila served completo; a non-alcoholic sipper that cleanses the palate between fiery doses of agave.
The world of booze can be mystifying to people that don't work in bars or around alcohol all the time. I hear a lot of assumptions about the industry I'm in that are - much like 90% of what you hear in bars - completely false. Here are a few you've probably heard yourself.
The debate rages on: Should we try to look cool and crack open the Boston shaker or be tidy professionals and use the Hawthorne strainer the way God intended? Be sure to leave your two cents in the comments section.
The traditional garnish for a Pisco Sour is a couple of drops of bitters in the foam, but I've never been particularly impressed with the way these few paltry drops of bitters sat in their little egg-white mattress and didn't play along with the rest of the drink. I envisioned a Pisco Sour with a uniformly-distributed bitters-scorched foam: slightly crisp as the fire burnt the sugars, and slightly warm as the foam insulated the rest of the frosty cocktail from the heat. A pisco creme brulée in a glass!
I get so many visitors looking for tips on how to write a bartending resume that I thought I should finally post a tutorial on how to write your own. Click the headline to read more.
I always love showing up to a party with a gallon jug of pre-mixed margaritas, so I've decided to share my recipe. This margarita recipe is the perfect blend of strong, sweet, and sour. But be warned: this recipe packs a serious punch.
There isn't much I can say about this video that hasn't been said already. If you've read anything I've written about cocktails, you'll understand why this video symbolizes everything wrong with the state of bartending in America today. Watch and learn, but be warned: this one isn't for the feint of heart.
About Me
My name is Jeff Morgenthaler and I'm the head bartender at Clyde Common in Portland, Oregon.
I've been tending bar since 1996 and writing about it since 2004. Mixing drinks has become something of a passion for me in recent years, and I strive to elevate the experience of having a drink from something mundane to something more culinary.
The writing I do here is intended as a work in progress. My recipes are like my opinions: they are constantly being revised and refined as I work them through my mind and my fingers. Comments and participation are encouraged, so please don't feel the need to tread lightly here.
I considered naming this article “How To Take an Order Behind the Bar”, since there seems to be a problem with bartenders and servers not fully understanding the vocabulary used in their workplace. I was reminded of this while reading this thread on the StraightBourbon.com forums some time ago. Yes, there seems to be some confusion about the terms “neat”, “up” (or “straight up”) and “with a twist”, and my goal is to try to help straighten this mess out.
Neat
The first – and simplest – term we’re going to examine is “neat“. “Neat” – as applied to drinks served in bars – refers to a shot of liquor poured directly from the bottle and into a glass. There is no chilling involved with a “neat” drink. There is never an additional ingredient in a drink served “neat”. You can not have a Screwdriver served “neat”. That’s not how we use the word.
Up
If you walk into a bar and order a Dry Martini, “neat”, you might be served a tepid shot of Martini and Rossi Dry Vermouth in a room-temperature glass. That’s how the term “neat” is used. Although you know how much I love vermouth, nothing about that order sounds appetizing. What you were probably looking for was a Dry Martini, served “up. “Up” implies that there was some preparation involved, and that there is no ice in the final product. You can have a Manhattan on the rocks, or I can give it to you “up”.
Straight Up
“Up” was originally short for “straight up“, meaning “no bullshit“. As in “I can handle the truth. Give it to me straight up.“
Where the real confusion lies is with the term “straight up”. Although I don’t know where the choaos began, these days there is a bit of conversation required when that phrase is used.
Let’s say you order a Wild Turkey, “straight up”. Your bartender should assume you mean that you want your bourbon “neat”, and serve it as so. However, if you were looking for a chilled shot of whiskey in a cocktail glass, you probably should have dropped the “straight” and asked for your drink “up”. And if, as a bartender, you’ve received an order for a Ketel One “straight up”, you should probably check with your customer to make sure they’re looking for chilled vodka and vermouth, and not a glass of warm vodka.
Twist
A “twist” is always a thin strip of citrus peel, without pith and without the meat of the fruit. It derives its name from the fact that the peel is “twisted” over the surface of the drink to express the oils. Note that the default generic “twist” is made from lemon peel. Order appropriately.
The third term that causes some confusion on both sides of the bar is the word “twist”. I’ve ordered a gin martini with a twist (my preferred garnish) and received a big wedge of lemon on the side of the glass. I’ve taken an order for a gin and tonic with a twist, and had the drink sent back because I garnished with a thin strip of citrus peel. A delicate blend of gin and vermouth, the Martini is ruined by a big squeeze of lemon juice. Conversely, the bold flavors of a gin and tonic need more than a light spritzing of lemon or lime oils on the surface of the drink.
To recap:
Neat: Right out of the bottle. Up: Chilled, and served in a cocktail glass. Straight Up: Usually means “neat”, but check first. Twist: A thin strip of citrus peel. Default is lemon.
Comments
52 Responses to “Up, Neat, Straight Up, or On the Rocks”
Thanks for this. I’ve had many a bartender misunderstand what I mean when I say I’d like a drink “up”—I may print this out to keep with me, just in case.
09 May 2008 at 12:41 pm 2. Dan
Here’s my take on things.
Neat: Room temperature, straight out of the bottle into a glass, be it a lowball or a snifter, etc.
Up: Chilled, in a cocktail glass.
Straight Up: Chilled, in a lowball, highball, etc.
To me, the Sazerac is served “straight up”. This is also how I like my whiskey sours.
09 May 2008 at 12:54 pm 3. Lance J. Mayhew
I’m going to print this out and safety pin it to the shirt of anyone who dares misorder from me again now that this post is up.
I always cringe when they ask for a gin and tonic with a twist. I always try to clarify, and it usually devolves into them asking for a lime twist when what they wanted was a lime wedge. Stupid me, I should be able to read their minds from the beginning.
There have been several times I’ve ordered scotch or whiskey neat, only to be given an odd look when I ask for water on the side. 9 times out of 10, they bring a glass of ice water (with cubes), making it difficult to add to the glass without splashing everything everywhere. I’d like to see small pitchers available with spring water, even if it’s an extra cost. After all, how much is that shot costing you to begin with? :)
10 May 2008 at 9:02 am 10. John Claude
Jeff F.
“with a water back” is how you’d get that on the side.
Conversely, after bartending out East, I’m amazed at how many martini/manhattan drinkers want the rocks from the mix on the side. It kills me to see them sit on their drink FOREVER and keep it chilled by dumping the old ice in periodically.
Another terrific blog Jeff. I should print it out and let all the servers in my restaurant read it.
19 May 2008 at 8:45 pm 14. juliana
Very nice, Jeff. I want to pass this out in the Mission, where sometimes I think they get confused if they have to do more than pull beer.
26 May 2008 at 12:26 pm 15. janice
Great primer, thanks. It seems that in Canada, up and straight up are still synonyms, at least in my neck of the woods.
One of the reasons I’ve asked for rocks on the side of an up martini is that the bartender works the shaker so hard that it’s a watery mess by the time it arrives. That’s no fun. My favourite martini in Toronto was at the Royal York hotel Library Room a number of years ago, where they served it in a small glass jug nestled in a bowl of ice. Not sure if they still do that, but it really made my day.
26 May 2008 at 12:33 pm 16. John Claude
Janice.
Several of the bars here in Providence use the small decanters nestled in ice.
Your best bet though is to just make sure you ask for a stirred martini.
09 Jun 2008 at 11:14 am 17. deb
I say a sign or maturity is to be able to drink coffee black, smoke cigs unfiltered and drink whiskey neat!!
23 Jun 2008 at 2:19 pm 18. DJ
two questions from a ‘kid’ who knows nothing. whiskey neat but chilled (without the dilluting effect of ice) – is that straight up?
and what do you call vodka, OJ, and lemon juice – Absolut calls it an Absolut 18, my friend calls it Swamp Water…what’s the boss behind the bar call it?
Thanks!
23 Jun 2008 at 5:24 pm 19. John Claude
By chilled you mean kept in a fridge or freezer? I’d just call that kinda gross.
As for the vodka/oj/lemon juice, it’s just one of a million variations on a drink with probably dozens of names. Just call it a Screwdriver and ask for a lemon garnish.
DJ – We don’t typically keep spirits chilled because they – especially nice whiskies – don’t reveal all of their wonderful aromas and flavors at that temperature. Room temperature is ideal for aged spirits, so keep that whisk(e)y bottle out on the countertop where it belongs!
Notable exceptions to this rule are vodka (most likely a hold-over from a time before five-times distilled super-premiums) Jägermeister (much easier to gulp down in large quantities at college parties) and, as I recently learned, Chartreuse.
As for the vodka/orange/lemon, John Claude is correct, just call it a Screwdriver with a lemon garnish.
Why chill Chartreuse? I’ve never heard that one. How about Benedictine?
I keep my tequila in the refrigerator, and occasionally my vodka or gin, but it’s just easier to chill it with ice. Besides, if it’s been in the freezer it doesn’t dilute properly when making a martini.
My other question is about light. Most bars have their spirit wall on an interior wall with florescent lighting of some kind. There’s a bar in my home town that uses their front window as a backdrop for their liquor display. What spirits will degrade through light? I believe Absinthe is one of them.
A friend of mine mentioned a drink they came up with last night. It’s a Screwdriver served in a Highball glass called…. (you guessed it) “A Screwball”.
Blair – I was at a Chartreuse class last Wednesday in Portland and the international rep recommended serving Chartreuse either chilled or on the rocks. Each of the products we tried were chilled, and I must admit, it was quite nice. I had always taken my Chartreuse at room temp, but the chill calmed a bit of the fire.
27 Jun 2008 at 2:01 am 24. Albert
Ahh, Chartreuse.
We keep both the yellow and the green in the cooler at work, but I have to say – I prefer it at room temp.
I learned a long time ago from Ronnie (yeah. that one.) that if you sip it slow and let it evaporate off, you get the most taste off the herbs.
Since I don’t polish the 375mls off like I used to, it’s my approach to drinking the my favorite of all liquors now.
And don’t think I’ve forgotten about the last time I served you the dragon @ Soriah. Uh huh…
27 Jun 2008 at 2:18 am 25. Albert
We also keep Bailey’s in there. As well as Akavits, Poire William, and a bunch of aperitifs (Lillet, both Dubonnet, some Sherry). And of course – Rumple Minz. Most of it makes sense, but for some reason we keep one set of Fernet and Menta Brancas inside, and one at room temperature. Go figure.
27 Jun 2008 at 5:17 pm 26. Margarita
Limoncello gets stored in the freezer around here.
21 Aug 2008 at 4:36 am 27. ND
Haha, cool post. If you order a drink “neat” over here, the bartender’ll send over some dimwit to tidy up the serviette holder…
Anyway, that tiny splash of water always opens up the bouquet of a good Scotch very nicely. It seems to have the opposite effect on Bourbon, though, like all the flavor vanishes when that dash of water goes in (leaving behind a kind of nasty charcoal/damp leaves taste). Am I imagining this, or do you other folks concur?
Jeebus, Morgenthaler, what are you doing up so early?
My own opinion in re: bourbon is one I’ve argued with Ryan Stotz about at length. I contend that American whiskey is designed to be served with ice, either in a cocktail or with a bit of ice tossed in the glass. This is particularly true with all those high-proof whiskies that can be so “hot” from all the alcohol.
True bourbonistas shun me.
26 Aug 2008 at 5:43 am 30. MarkP
As a customer, its still a little confusing. I guess I am not a purist but I like my Manhattans at room temp. But, ‘UP’ looks like it always means chilled, somehow (glass or liquor).
In other words,
Neat = one liquor, not pre-chilled, no ice in the glass.
Up = one or many liquors, pre-chilled, no ice in the glass.
On the Rocks = one or many liquors, pre-chilled, with ice in the glass.
Straight Up = one liquor, not pre-chilled, no ice in the glass.
Whats the definition of many liquors, not pre-chilled, no ice? If I get my Manhattan ‘UP’ will it come pre-chilled?
A little help….
26 Aug 2008 at 9:37 am 31. John Claude
There isn’t (nor is there a need) a specific term for multiple unchilled liquids.
Manhattans are generally served chilled as a rule. Any bartender who serves you up a warm one (unless you ask for it) has no business behind a bar.
26 Aug 2008 at 12:28 pm 32. MarkP
“(unless you ask for it)” Like I said, I did/do ask for it that way. I also said I’m not a purist. I like what I like. If it is not a *real* Manhattan then Ok…call it something else. But, do you mean to say that there is no other drink in the world that has multiple liquors that can be served either chilled or unchilled? What about Highball variants? Rusty Nails? …etc?
26 Aug 2008 at 1:46 pm 33. John Claude
I mean there’s not a term specifically for unchilled multiple liquor drinks. They’re just cocktails or shots. Rusty Nails are usually on the rocks FYI.
28 Dec 2008 at 11:03 pm 34. Brett
Not sure if this thread is still being followed….here’s my question: I like Manhattans prepared as described for “up” but prefer it in an old-fashioned glass (just not a fan of martini glasses). What’s the best way to order this? I’ve been told “chilled, neat” (which doesn’t really make sense). I usually end up spelling it out…something like “chilled in a rocks glass, but no ice” just to be very clear. Any thoughts?
Brett – I think you’re probably best off ordering your drink as you have been. Sorry I don’t have more to offer, but I think “chilled in a rocks glass, but no ice” is a fine order.
29 Dec 2008 at 7:49 am 36. John Claude
I get this a lot. Just say “A Manhattan, but could you put it in a rocks glass?”. Unless the bartender is a drooling dolt, he/she should understand.
If the bartender is drooling, look for another bar! Don’t take a chance that he may accidentally put in more than simple syrup. :)
15 Jan 2009 at 9:32 pm 38. chuck
The only way to drink nice single malts like Lagavulin or Macallan is neat, perhaps with 2 small ice cubes or water *back*.
sometimes i order cheaper single malts (livet and fiddich) rocks, and so occasionly i’ll slip up and order a nice single malt rocks.
I know the mettle of a bartender who looks at me like the blackjack dealer looks at a player who just doubled down a 5 against a Jack, as if to say “you really want a nice whisky like that rocks?”. If they do bring it rocks, like i ordered, but cleary not how it is supposed to be served, i will appologize and send it back. If they look upset, i will offer to pay for it, but still order a new one neat. If they try to sift the ice out of the first one, i leave ;-)
Being a bartender is about getting what we want, not necesarily what we ask for. unfortunately quality bartending is a lost art and most of what you get today are 20 something career community college students who havent a clue about what the bar experience is about from the customer perspective. thus in most places the ashtrays are overflowing, the puddles of beer on the bar are stale, the drinks take way too long, and everything in their lives, including their 2 absent baby daddys, is our fault. I find it hillarious when one of these 20 somthings gets huffy having to remember the few cheap single malts they carry. It is like, hon, i am obviously gladly willing to pay at least 2X more per drink than anyone in here, you may want to learn your trade and find out how your bread is buttered. what, i would be cool to you and you would not be huffy if i say and swilled $2 drafts all night like a frat boy?
15 Jan 2009 at 10:13 pm 39. chuck
In most of Europe, ordering a water back gets you a small pitcher of luke water. In the states, ordering a water back usually gets you a huge glass of ice water. Does it set a bad tone if you explain to the bartender that you want a tradtional water back, after they hand you the big red plastic cup of ice cold tap water rocks? What is the best way/time to make this clarification?
Also, when wanting only a few cubes of ice in a snifter to drop into scotch, how do you order this? i order a “small glass of ice” (then usually have to discuss/clarify that I do NOT want the drink pour over ice). A term like “rocks back” seems like it would be more effecient to convey this. i fear bartenders would not understand what i meant though. Is there a term already?
15 Jan 2009 at 10:43 pm 40. John Claude
Chuck.
If you order something a certain way, that’s how it’s going to get made. It’s not my job to give you what I think you should have. I may not like that you’ve asked me to “shake that martini to death” but hey, it’s your drink, not mine. I can suggest things if I think a mistake is being made or I feel you may like a variance, but if someone wants to drop rocks in their $25 scotch or salt the rim of that ridiculously expensive tequila, more power to them. I’m not paying for it. Also, you can’t “send drinks back” when it’s obviously your screw up. Especially when you’re dealing with expensive liquors. I might dump a Jack & Coke out, but I’m sure as Hell not watching that Blanton’s go down the drain. Suck it up, have the bartender strain the whiskey/whisky into another glass and learn from your mistake rather than throwing a perfectly good (yet slightly chilled) drink away.
Out of curiosity, have you ever bartended? To presume what someone wants is just asking for issues. Honestly, if you pulled the kind of attitude you suggest you have, I’d rather deal with the frat boys than a patronizing, know-it-all customer.
One solution I have found is to ask the bartender for a cocktail straw. I then can precisely add the amount of water I need from whatever size glass with however much cubed or crushed ice they may hand me. I simply dip the straw into the water, cover the end with a finger, and carry it over to my scotch. This is also a fine way to extend the drink experience, similar to an absinthe drip.
If water is a real issue, bring some of your favorite bottled spring water. It will not only taste better, but be at room temperature. I don’t like the taste of tap water in my premium scotch much anyway.
16 Jan 2009 at 7:33 am 42. chuck
Cool ideas, Blair. Yes, if i get cheaper single malts i will order rocks with water back, use a straw with whatever they give for the water, and drop in my own splashes. it is more when i want a small glass of ice with a neat pour. John Claude had the suggestion of “rocks on the side”, which should work. Thanks!
16 Jan 2009 at 8:08 am 43. chuck
John Claude, first thanks for the tip on “rocks on the side”. That helps.
Next, no I have never bartended, but spend way too much time at bars – both as part of my job and recreationally. I am not sure what industry you work in (though I guess it is consumer services as a bartender), but it does not take a genius to figure out that bartending as a profession has crumbled. Like I said, it is a lost art.
As to my attitude, if i am paying 20 bucks per drink, and the bartender is there to serve me, they better get it right or make it right. If getting it right takes a lot of insight and care into 1) what drinks you have to offer, and 2) respectful suggestions/clarifications as to preparations methods, especially if it seems a slip of the tounge, it may be good for the bartender to look past literal interpretations. An attitude of a bartender/waitress/hairstylist, etc. taking something literal and being defensive with “that is what you said” is just the kind of bartender/et al that complains at the end of the night about getting stiffed on tips. Of course, this is about 90%+ of the bartenders out there.
I think customers (in bars, but in hospitality services in general) have set our standards WAY too low for FAR too long, being served by mostly 20 somethings who have no interest in their professions and are mostly in it to make cash tips. This is why a customer who insists to be 1) treated as very important even if he is not swilling cheap stale domestic like all the yahoos, and 2) sends drinks back that are not made to his liking, appears to have an attitude.
Though not a bartender, I have been in professional servies for 15 years. My customers often say they want something a certain way yet often they really want something different. If it is their dime, my real work starts when i have to find the delta between what is asked for and what is truly wanted. My ‘bar’ does not go low enough for me to say “Hey, that is what they said they wanted…..”. My boss never buys that excuse. Bottom line, customers are my lifeblood: i have to make it right or find someone who can, end of story.
We should not forget, the customers are paying – and paying a premium. This buys them leadway with attitude and insistence on excellence. The bardender (or computer consultant, or mechanic, or dentist, etc….), otoh, are servants, even if they have some sort of power trip or defensiveness that they could never have interpretted an order incorrectly.
Lastly, I can and will refuse any drink I do not like. Sorry! And yes, if it apears to cause a problem with the 20 something, I will offer to pay. I’m not cheap, i just wanted it right. If i get any flak after then I will talk with the manager or leave. Life is too short to deal with bartenders who could never make mistakes and take stances of “if this guy wants it this way, this is how he gets it. if he does not like it, he can suck wind.”
16 Jan 2009 at 10:23 am 44. ND
Hey man, I’m not sure what a “slip of the tounge” is, but it sounds embarrassing. I wish I could find a bartender that gives me EXACTLY what I ask for, without getting clever and modifying it (“sorry sir, James Bond said to shake your martini”). And seriously, where do you get off ordering something, and then not paying for it because you made a mistake?! I do agree that a bartender can make suggestions, but if you’re not asking for something totally off the wall (like a malt whisky with a nice cherry Coke), then good service demands giving you what you ask for—the bartender’s not a clairvoyant, and he’s also not a babysitter. Sorry.
16 Jan 2009 at 11:44 am 45. chuck
ND, good bartending is about excellent customer satisfaction. If arguing with a paying customer about who said what is the way a bartender gets excellent satisfaction, more power to him. Uh, where i “get off” is demanding excellent service for the premium i pay. Some bartenders get that, most do not.
And if patrons are obligated to pay for any drink from anyone because they say so, why wouldnt they charge for it, before they bring it?
Most decent bar managers understand that a few re-makes is part of the cost of doing business. If you, however, think business increases by asking customers “where do you get off?!?”, enjoy the increase in business.
Bar patrons around the world: you do not have to keep taking this kind of crap from your local bartenders!!! Demand excellence. It will push the hacks out and increase the numbers that drop their attitudes, provide excellent, friendly service and ensure satisfaction.
16 Jan 2009 at 11:54 am 46. ND
Que? Let me get this straight: you order a $25 Scotch, and you specifically ask for it “on the rocks”. Then, when it arrives, you argue with the waiter that the bartender should’ve known that expensive Scotch shouldn’t be served on the rocks, but rather be served neat with a small pitcher of mineral water on the side. You then send the drink back, and insist that the bartender should pour you a new drink because a proper bartender would’ve taken the initiative to make sure that your order was correct. And you sincerely believe that the bar manager’s pandering to your fickle arguments is going to somehow put more money into his pocket (because, as you put it, he’s the “slave” in the situation?).
I often work very closely with people in the hospitality industry, and it sounds to me like you’re the kind of customer who gets a hidden round of applause when he leaves the establishment.
16 Jan 2009 at 1:48 pm 47. John Claude
Chuck.
Let me start by saying this. I’m a damn good bartender. I do my research, I make an excellent and consistent cocktail, my customers love me. I adore the craft and I plan on continuing it as a profession probably until the end of my days.
I don’t argue with you that a really great bartender is hard to find. I’m in fact moving back to Portland, OR from Providence, RI for just that fact. The bars and what they do here are atrocities. Terrible service, terrible drinks, no ingenuity. People out here think they’re God’s gift to bartending because they use simple syrup. It’s absurd. I’m returning home to hone my craft and learn from the best.
Let me tell you, people have WEIRD tastes. I just the other night watched a table in the dining room order two Filet Mignons WELL DONE. I could almost hear the chef’s head hitting the cutting table when that order went through. The thing is, if I tried to nudge everyone another way when I thought what they were doing was wrong, I’d have a lot of indignant and offended customers on my hands. Like was said earlier, unless it’s something completely out of the ballpark (I have often times sent waitresses back to the table to clarify orders), I’m going to give the customer what they asked for. For a customer to then blame me because I should have known what they meant is just absurd. And for you to say I or anyone else is an unqualified bartender for that reason is just plain insulting.
I’m sure you’re a very nice person and I would love to learn more about Scotch whisky from you (in fact, if you can recommend any books on the matter I’d be happy to look into them. Scotch’s are one of my weak points) but please, please, please drop the attitude. I’m here to serve you, but I’m not your “servant”. You’re not going to make many friends on a website populated by bartenders and servers by using terms like that.
Best of luck and enjoy the Scotch. Sans rocks. ; )
13 May 2009 at 3:20 pm 48. S. Jolly
John Claude,
Beautifully Stated!!
A Fat Kudoos to You!
I am a bartender like yourself, pursueing the “lost art” Studying, listening, learning all that I can of my profession..
I am also a drinker and I want my Whiskey neat with a coke back.
I live in a College town and u should see the looks that are thrown when I place my simple little order at other local bars.
My point??
I understand Chucks arguements. I don’t believe that he is referring to US.
Keep up the good work up there.. I’ll keep in “neat” down in GA!
I always love those pool joints that post up a sign of “House Rules” that are really just the normal rules but its there to point the dummy to it.
I think a big ol Ye-Ol’-Style brass placard of some kind behind the bar would be incredibly useful. “NEAT = x. UP = y. STRAIGHT UP = z. TWIST IS A PEEL NOT A WEDGE!”
This would aid patron and barkeep alike.
Yes, I carry with me at all dinnertimes a laminated placard showing a photo of a steak cooked to each of the 7 degree of order (including raw and burnt).
22 Nov 2009 at 9:46 am 50. raystargazer
This is an old thread, but I have to comment after reading it all. My dad was a scotch drinker from way back. Gave it up more or less in his 50s, but managed to plant the seed. So I’ve been playing with fidich and so forth (best I can afford) and when time are tough I fall back on JW. I like them all. As far as bars and servants, you’re all right. There is a mass of bad spots and a few good ones. My definition (learned from dad) is a bar you can sit in and relax. I only drank in a bar once with dad, but he just sat down, dropped his pack of luckys on the bar, ordered his scotch and visibly relaxed. He taught me how to sip (contrary to the shot guzzler kids I hung out with), and I do that to this day. My point is – relax. If you have a bartender who’s antagonistic, do the best you can to enjoy your drink and find another place. Otherwise, chat with him. They usually take the time to listen if they’re any good, and getting exactly what you want is no harder than what the pros here say. Order a scotch neat with a water back, or even “can I have a fidich neat with a cup of ice on the side?” Both would work in my experience and it’s not really that hard. I can tell you pouring out a good scotch would break my heart. Probably I would ask that he drain off the ice into another glass and bring me a second one minus the ice. By the time the second one was gone, the first one would be fine. Most of all drinking at a bar should be sans stress. So relax and understand that there are misunderstandings. Try to be clear while you’re still sober and you’ll get what you want.
Good thread! Thanks to all.
02 Dec 2009 at 10:40 am 51. Frumpulent Grumpton
“And if, as a bartender, you’ve received an order for a Ketel One ’straight up’, you should probably check with your customer to make sure they’re looking for chilled vodka and vermouth, and not a glass of warm vodka.”
I think you mean, “a Ketel One Martini”. Where did the Vermouth request come from?
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09 May 2008 at 10:22 am 1. Marleigh
Thanks for this. I’ve had many a bartender misunderstand what I mean when I say I’d like a drink “up”—I may print this out to keep with me, just in case.
09 May 2008 at 12:41 pm 2. Dan
Here’s my take on things.
Neat: Room temperature, straight out of the bottle into a glass, be it a lowball or a snifter, etc.
Up: Chilled, in a cocktail glass.
Straight Up: Chilled, in a lowball, highball, etc.
To me, the Sazerac is served “straight up”. This is also how I like my whiskey sours.
09 May 2008 at 12:54 pm 3. Lance J. Mayhew
I’m going to print this out and safety pin it to the shirt of anyone who dares misorder from me again now that this post is up.
I always cringe when they ask for a gin and tonic with a twist. I always try to clarify, and it usually devolves into them asking for a lime twist when what they wanted was a lime wedge. Stupid me, I should be able to read their minds from the beginning.
09 May 2008 at 12:55 pm 4. Lance J. Mayhew
Is that martini stem in your pic chipped?
09 May 2008 at 1:17 pm 5. Jeffrey Morgenthaler
Dan, I think that a hard-core whiskey drinker looking for a “Lagavulin, straight up” is going to have a problem with your definition, there.
And Lance, that glass is chipped. I got all of those images off of iStockPhoto this morning and had to take the hand that was dealt.
Jeff
09 May 2008 at 1:23 pm 6. Barbara
I completely agree with your definitions Jeff. Now, if only we could get the customers to comply!
09 May 2008 at 1:30 pm 7. Dan
Ah, but a hardcore whiskey drinker would know to order his whiskey neat ;)
09 May 2008 at 3:43 pm 8. Jeff Frane
As a customer, I appreciate the heads up. I always thought that neat=up=straight up. Obviously, I’m a dope.
Is there a specific reference for “neat, with water/ice in a separate glass”?
And I would put in a vote that any bar serving good malt whisky has a pitcher of *good* water available for a splash.
10 May 2008 at 7:39 am 9. blair frodelius
There have been several times I’ve ordered scotch or whiskey neat, only to be given an odd look when I ask for water on the side. 9 times out of 10, they bring a glass of ice water (with cubes), making it difficult to add to the glass without splashing everything everywhere. I’d like to see small pitchers available with spring water, even if it’s an extra cost. After all, how much is that shot costing you to begin with? :)
10 May 2008 at 9:02 am 10. John Claude
Jeff F.
“with a water back” is how you’d get that on the side.
Conversely, after bartending out East, I’m amazed at how many martini/manhattan drinkers want the rocks from the mix on the side. It kills me to see them sit on their drink FOREVER and keep it chilled by dumping the old ice in periodically.
15 May 2008 at 9:47 am 11. jimmy
The funny thing about this is, when you try to clarify a customer’s terminology, they sometimes look at you like you’re the idiot.
“I said ‘neat,’ I want it cold in a martini glass you fool!”
15 May 2008 at 9:49 am 12. Jeffrey Morgenthaler
Jimmy, you of all people should be able to look them in the eye and say, “That’s not what that means.”
18 May 2008 at 5:16 pm 13. Mark
Another terrific blog Jeff. I should print it out and let all the servers in my restaurant read it.
19 May 2008 at 8:45 pm 14. juliana
Very nice, Jeff. I want to pass this out in the Mission, where sometimes I think they get confused if they have to do more than pull beer.
26 May 2008 at 12:26 pm 15. janice
Great primer, thanks. It seems that in Canada, up and straight up are still synonyms, at least in my neck of the woods.
One of the reasons I’ve asked for rocks on the side of an up martini is that the bartender works the shaker so hard that it’s a watery mess by the time it arrives. That’s no fun. My favourite martini in Toronto was at the Royal York hotel Library Room a number of years ago, where they served it in a small glass jug nestled in a bowl of ice. Not sure if they still do that, but it really made my day.
26 May 2008 at 12:33 pm 16. John Claude
Janice.
Several of the bars here in Providence use the small decanters nestled in ice.
Your best bet though is to just make sure you ask for a stirred martini.
09 Jun 2008 at 11:14 am 17. deb
I say a sign or maturity is to be able to drink coffee black, smoke cigs unfiltered and drink whiskey neat!!
23 Jun 2008 at 2:19 pm 18. DJ
two questions from a ‘kid’ who knows nothing. whiskey neat but chilled (without the dilluting effect of ice) – is that straight up?
and what do you call vodka, OJ, and lemon juice – Absolut calls it an Absolut 18, my friend calls it Swamp Water…what’s the boss behind the bar call it?
Thanks!
23 Jun 2008 at 5:24 pm 19. John Claude
By chilled you mean kept in a fridge or freezer? I’d just call that kinda gross.
As for the vodka/oj/lemon juice, it’s just one of a million variations on a drink with probably dozens of names. Just call it a Screwdriver and ask for a lemon garnish.
24 Jun 2008 at 1:01 am 20. Jeffrey Morgenthaler
DJ – We don’t typically keep spirits chilled because they – especially nice whiskies – don’t reveal all of their wonderful aromas and flavors at that temperature. Room temperature is ideal for aged spirits, so keep that whisk(e)y bottle out on the countertop where it belongs!
Notable exceptions to this rule are vodka (most likely a hold-over from a time before five-times distilled super-premiums) Jägermeister (much easier to gulp down in large quantities at college parties) and, as I recently learned, Chartreuse.
As for the vodka/orange/lemon, John Claude is correct, just call it a Screwdriver with a lemon garnish.
24 Jun 2008 at 4:59 am 21. Blair Frodelius
Jeff,
Why chill Chartreuse? I’ve never heard that one. How about Benedictine?
I keep my tequila in the refrigerator, and occasionally my vodka or gin, but it’s just easier to chill it with ice. Besides, if it’s been in the freezer it doesn’t dilute properly when making a martini.
My other question is about light. Most bars have their spirit wall on an interior wall with florescent lighting of some kind. There’s a bar in my home town that uses their front window as a backdrop for their liquor display. What spirits will degrade through light? I believe Absinthe is one of them.
Blair
http://goodspiritsnews.spaces.live.com
24 Jun 2008 at 5:01 am 22. Blair Frodelius
Re: Screwdrivers.
A friend of mine mentioned a drink they came up with last night. It’s a Screwdriver served in a Highball glass called…. (you guessed it) “A Screwball”.
Blair
24 Jun 2008 at 10:05 am 23. Jeffrey Morgenthaler
Blair – I was at a Chartreuse class last Wednesday in Portland and the international rep recommended serving Chartreuse either chilled or on the rocks. Each of the products we tried were chilled, and I must admit, it was quite nice. I had always taken my Chartreuse at room temp, but the chill calmed a bit of the fire.
27 Jun 2008 at 2:01 am 24. Albert
Ahh, Chartreuse.
We keep both the yellow and the green in the cooler at work, but I have to say – I prefer it at room temp.
I learned a long time ago from Ronnie (yeah. that one.) that if you sip it slow and let it evaporate off, you get the most taste off the herbs.
Since I don’t polish the 375mls off like I used to, it’s my approach to drinking the my favorite of all liquors now.
And don’t think I’ve forgotten about the last time I served you the dragon @ Soriah. Uh huh…
27 Jun 2008 at 2:18 am 25. Albert
We also keep Bailey’s in there. As well as Akavits, Poire William, and a bunch of aperitifs (Lillet, both Dubonnet, some Sherry). And of course – Rumple Minz. Most of it makes sense, but for some reason we keep one set of Fernet and Menta Brancas inside, and one at room temperature. Go figure.
27 Jun 2008 at 5:17 pm 26. Margarita
Limoncello gets stored in the freezer around here.
21 Aug 2008 at 4:36 am 27. ND
Haha, cool post. If you order a drink “neat” over here, the bartender’ll send over some dimwit to tidy up the serviette holder…
Anyway, that tiny splash of water always opens up the bouquet of a good Scotch very nicely. It seems to have the opposite effect on Bourbon, though, like all the flavor vanishes when that dash of water goes in (leaving behind a kind of nasty charcoal/damp leaves taste). Am I imagining this, or do you other folks concur?
22 Aug 2008 at 11:52 am 28. Jeffrey Morgenthaler
Hey ND – I don’t think you’re imagining it, but I believe it might have something to do with the proof of the spirit in question. Anyone concur?
23 Aug 2008 at 7:57 am 29. Jeff Frane
Jeebus, Morgenthaler, what are you doing up so early?
My own opinion in re: bourbon is one I’ve argued with Ryan Stotz about at length. I contend that American whiskey is designed to be served with ice, either in a cocktail or with a bit of ice tossed in the glass. This is particularly true with all those high-proof whiskies that can be so “hot” from all the alcohol.
True bourbonistas shun me.
26 Aug 2008 at 5:43 am 30. MarkP
As a customer, its still a little confusing. I guess I am not a purist but I like my Manhattans at room temp. But, ‘UP’ looks like it always means chilled, somehow (glass or liquor).
In other words,
Neat = one liquor, not pre-chilled, no ice in the glass.
Up = one or many liquors, pre-chilled, no ice in the glass.
On the Rocks = one or many liquors, pre-chilled, with ice in the glass.
Straight Up = one liquor, not pre-chilled, no ice in the glass.
Whats the definition of many liquors, not pre-chilled, no ice? If I get my Manhattan ‘UP’ will it come pre-chilled?
A little help….
26 Aug 2008 at 9:37 am 31. John Claude
There isn’t (nor is there a need) a specific term for multiple unchilled liquids.
Manhattans are generally served chilled as a rule. Any bartender who serves you up a warm one (unless you ask for it) has no business behind a bar.
26 Aug 2008 at 12:28 pm 32. MarkP
“(unless you ask for it)” Like I said, I did/do ask for it that way. I also said I’m not a purist. I like what I like. If it is not a *real* Manhattan then Ok…call it something else. But, do you mean to say that there is no other drink in the world that has multiple liquors that can be served either chilled or unchilled? What about Highball variants? Rusty Nails? …etc?
26 Aug 2008 at 1:46 pm 33. John Claude
I mean there’s not a term specifically for unchilled multiple liquor drinks. They’re just cocktails or shots. Rusty Nails are usually on the rocks FYI.
28 Dec 2008 at 11:03 pm 34. Brett
Not sure if this thread is still being followed….here’s my question: I like Manhattans prepared as described for “up” but prefer it in an old-fashioned glass (just not a fan of martini glasses). What’s the best way to order this? I’ve been told “chilled, neat” (which doesn’t really make sense). I usually end up spelling it out…something like “chilled in a rocks glass, but no ice” just to be very clear. Any thoughts?
28 Dec 2008 at 11:48 pm 35. Jeffrey Morgenthaler
Brett – I think you’re probably best off ordering your drink as you have been. Sorry I don’t have more to offer, but I think “chilled in a rocks glass, but no ice” is a fine order.
29 Dec 2008 at 7:49 am 36. John Claude
I get this a lot. Just say “A Manhattan, but could you put it in a rocks glass?”. Unless the bartender is a drooling dolt, he/she should understand.
29 Dec 2008 at 8:03 am 37. Blair Frodelius
If the bartender is drooling, look for another bar! Don’t take a chance that he may accidentally put in more than simple syrup. :)
15 Jan 2009 at 9:32 pm 38. chuck
The only way to drink nice single malts like Lagavulin or Macallan is neat, perhaps with 2 small ice cubes or water *back*.
sometimes i order cheaper single malts (livet and fiddich) rocks, and so occasionly i’ll slip up and order a nice single malt rocks.
I know the mettle of a bartender who looks at me like the blackjack dealer looks at a player who just doubled down a 5 against a Jack, as if to say “you really want a nice whisky like that rocks?”. If they do bring it rocks, like i ordered, but cleary not how it is supposed to be served, i will appologize and send it back. If they look upset, i will offer to pay for it, but still order a new one neat. If they try to sift the ice out of the first one, i leave ;-)
Being a bartender is about getting what we want, not necesarily what we ask for. unfortunately quality bartending is a lost art and most of what you get today are 20 something career community college students who havent a clue about what the bar experience is about from the customer perspective. thus in most places the ashtrays are overflowing, the puddles of beer on the bar are stale, the drinks take way too long, and everything in their lives, including their 2 absent baby daddys, is our fault. I find it hillarious when one of these 20 somthings gets huffy having to remember the few cheap single malts they carry. It is like, hon, i am obviously gladly willing to pay at least 2X more per drink than anyone in here, you may want to learn your trade and find out how your bread is buttered. what, i would be cool to you and you would not be huffy if i say and swilled $2 drafts all night like a frat boy?
15 Jan 2009 at 10:13 pm 39. chuck
In most of Europe, ordering a water back gets you a small pitcher of luke water. In the states, ordering a water back usually gets you a huge glass of ice water. Does it set a bad tone if you explain to the bartender that you want a tradtional water back, after they hand you the big red plastic cup of ice cold tap water rocks? What is the best way/time to make this clarification?
Also, when wanting only a few cubes of ice in a snifter to drop into scotch, how do you order this? i order a “small glass of ice” (then usually have to discuss/clarify that I do NOT want the drink pour over ice). A term like “rocks back” seems like it would be more effecient to convey this. i fear bartenders would not understand what i meant though. Is there a term already?
15 Jan 2009 at 10:43 pm 40. John Claude
Chuck.
If you order something a certain way, that’s how it’s going to get made. It’s not my job to give you what I think you should have. I may not like that you’ve asked me to “shake that martini to death” but hey, it’s your drink, not mine. I can suggest things if I think a mistake is being made or I feel you may like a variance, but if someone wants to drop rocks in their $25 scotch or salt the rim of that ridiculously expensive tequila, more power to them. I’m not paying for it. Also, you can’t “send drinks back” when it’s obviously your screw up. Especially when you’re dealing with expensive liquors. I might dump a Jack & Coke out, but I’m sure as Hell not watching that Blanton’s go down the drain. Suck it up, have the bartender strain the whiskey/whisky into another glass and learn from your mistake rather than throwing a perfectly good (yet slightly chilled) drink away.
Out of curiosity, have you ever bartended? To presume what someone wants is just asking for issues. Honestly, if you pulled the kind of attitude you suggest you have, I’d rather deal with the frat boys than a patronizing, know-it-all customer.
And it’s called “Rocks on the side”.
16 Jan 2009 at 7:15 am 41. Blair Frodelius
One solution I have found is to ask the bartender for a cocktail straw. I then can precisely add the amount of water I need from whatever size glass with however much cubed or crushed ice they may hand me. I simply dip the straw into the water, cover the end with a finger, and carry it over to my scotch. This is also a fine way to extend the drink experience, similar to an absinthe drip.
If water is a real issue, bring some of your favorite bottled spring water. It will not only taste better, but be at room temperature. I don’t like the taste of tap water in my premium scotch much anyway.
16 Jan 2009 at 7:33 am 42. chuck
Cool ideas, Blair. Yes, if i get cheaper single malts i will order rocks with water back, use a straw with whatever they give for the water, and drop in my own splashes. it is more when i want a small glass of ice with a neat pour. John Claude had the suggestion of “rocks on the side”, which should work. Thanks!
16 Jan 2009 at 8:08 am 43. chuck
John Claude, first thanks for the tip on “rocks on the side”. That helps.
Next, no I have never bartended, but spend way too much time at bars – both as part of my job and recreationally. I am not sure what industry you work in (though I guess it is consumer services as a bartender), but it does not take a genius to figure out that bartending as a profession has crumbled. Like I said, it is a lost art.
As to my attitude, if i am paying 20 bucks per drink, and the bartender is there to serve me, they better get it right or make it right. If getting it right takes a lot of insight and care into 1) what drinks you have to offer, and 2) respectful suggestions/clarifications as to preparations methods, especially if it seems a slip of the tounge, it may be good for the bartender to look past literal interpretations. An attitude of a bartender/waitress/hairstylist, etc. taking something literal and being defensive with “that is what you said” is just the kind of bartender/et al that complains at the end of the night about getting stiffed on tips. Of course, this is about 90%+ of the bartenders out there.
I think customers (in bars, but in hospitality services in general) have set our standards WAY too low for FAR too long, being served by mostly 20 somethings who have no interest in their professions and are mostly in it to make cash tips. This is why a customer who insists to be 1) treated as very important even if he is not swilling cheap stale domestic like all the yahoos, and 2) sends drinks back that are not made to his liking, appears to have an attitude.
Though not a bartender, I have been in professional servies for 15 years. My customers often say they want something a certain way yet often they really want something different. If it is their dime, my real work starts when i have to find the delta between what is asked for and what is truly wanted. My ‘bar’ does not go low enough for me to say “Hey, that is what they said they wanted…..”. My boss never buys that excuse. Bottom line, customers are my lifeblood: i have to make it right or find someone who can, end of story.
We should not forget, the customers are paying – and paying a premium. This buys them leadway with attitude and insistence on excellence. The bardender (or computer consultant, or mechanic, or dentist, etc….), otoh, are servants, even if they have some sort of power trip or defensiveness that they could never have interpretted an order incorrectly.
Lastly, I can and will refuse any drink I do not like. Sorry! And yes, if it apears to cause a problem with the 20 something, I will offer to pay. I’m not cheap, i just wanted it right. If i get any flak after then I will talk with the manager or leave. Life is too short to deal with bartenders who could never make mistakes and take stances of “if this guy wants it this way, this is how he gets it. if he does not like it, he can suck wind.”
16 Jan 2009 at 10:23 am 44. ND
Hey man, I’m not sure what a “slip of the tounge” is, but it sounds embarrassing. I wish I could find a bartender that gives me EXACTLY what I ask for, without getting clever and modifying it (“sorry sir, James Bond said to shake your martini”). And seriously, where do you get off ordering something, and then not paying for it because you made a mistake?! I do agree that a bartender can make suggestions, but if you’re not asking for something totally off the wall (like a malt whisky with a nice cherry Coke), then good service demands giving you what you ask for—the bartender’s not a clairvoyant, and he’s also not a babysitter. Sorry.
16 Jan 2009 at 11:44 am 45. chuck
ND, good bartending is about excellent customer satisfaction. If arguing with a paying customer about who said what is the way a bartender gets excellent satisfaction, more power to him. Uh, where i “get off” is demanding excellent service for the premium i pay. Some bartenders get that, most do not.
And if patrons are obligated to pay for any drink from anyone because they say so, why wouldnt they charge for it, before they bring it?
Most decent bar managers understand that a few re-makes is part of the cost of doing business. If you, however, think business increases by asking customers “where do you get off?!?”, enjoy the increase in business.
Bar patrons around the world: you do not have to keep taking this kind of crap from your local bartenders!!! Demand excellence. It will push the hacks out and increase the numbers that drop their attitudes, provide excellent, friendly service and ensure satisfaction.
16 Jan 2009 at 11:54 am 46. ND
Que? Let me get this straight: you order a $25 Scotch, and you specifically ask for it “on the rocks”. Then, when it arrives, you argue with the waiter that the bartender should’ve known that expensive Scotch shouldn’t be served on the rocks, but rather be served neat with a small pitcher of mineral water on the side. You then send the drink back, and insist that the bartender should pour you a new drink because a proper bartender would’ve taken the initiative to make sure that your order was correct. And you sincerely believe that the bar manager’s pandering to your fickle arguments is going to somehow put more money into his pocket (because, as you put it, he’s the “slave” in the situation?).
I often work very closely with people in the hospitality industry, and it sounds to me like you’re the kind of customer who gets a hidden round of applause when he leaves the establishment.
16 Jan 2009 at 1:48 pm 47. John Claude
Chuck.
Let me start by saying this. I’m a damn good bartender. I do my research, I make an excellent and consistent cocktail, my customers love me. I adore the craft and I plan on continuing it as a profession probably until the end of my days.
I don’t argue with you that a really great bartender is hard to find. I’m in fact moving back to Portland, OR from Providence, RI for just that fact. The bars and what they do here are atrocities. Terrible service, terrible drinks, no ingenuity. People out here think they’re God’s gift to bartending because they use simple syrup. It’s absurd. I’m returning home to hone my craft and learn from the best.
Let me tell you, people have WEIRD tastes. I just the other night watched a table in the dining room order two Filet Mignons WELL DONE. I could almost hear the chef’s head hitting the cutting table when that order went through. The thing is, if I tried to nudge everyone another way when I thought what they were doing was wrong, I’d have a lot of indignant and offended customers on my hands. Like was said earlier, unless it’s something completely out of the ballpark (I have often times sent waitresses back to the table to clarify orders), I’m going to give the customer what they asked for. For a customer to then blame me because I should have known what they meant is just absurd. And for you to say I or anyone else is an unqualified bartender for that reason is just plain insulting.
I’m sure you’re a very nice person and I would love to learn more about Scotch whisky from you (in fact, if you can recommend any books on the matter I’d be happy to look into them. Scotch’s are one of my weak points) but please, please, please drop the attitude. I’m here to serve you, but I’m not your “servant”. You’re not going to make many friends on a website populated by bartenders and servers by using terms like that.
Best of luck and enjoy the Scotch. Sans rocks. ; )
13 May 2009 at 3:20 pm 48. S. Jolly
John Claude,
Beautifully Stated!!
A Fat Kudoos to You!
I am a bartender like yourself, pursueing the “lost art” Studying, listening, learning all that I can of my profession..
I am also a drinker and I want my Whiskey neat with a coke back.
I live in a College town and u should see the looks that are thrown when I place my simple little order at other local bars.
My point??
I understand Chucks arguements. I don’t believe that he is referring to US.
Keep up the good work up there.. I’ll keep in “neat” down in GA!
22 Jun 2009 at 8:09 pm 49. dogimo
I always love those pool joints that post up a sign of “House Rules” that are really just the normal rules but its there to point the dummy to it.
I think a big ol Ye-Ol’-Style brass placard of some kind behind the bar would be incredibly useful. “NEAT = x. UP = y. STRAIGHT UP = z. TWIST IS A PEEL NOT A WEDGE!”
This would aid patron and barkeep alike.
Yes, I carry with me at all dinnertimes a laminated placard showing a photo of a steak cooked to each of the 7 degree of order (including raw and burnt).
22 Nov 2009 at 9:46 am 50. raystargazer
This is an old thread, but I have to comment after reading it all. My dad was a scotch drinker from way back. Gave it up more or less in his 50s, but managed to plant the seed. So I’ve been playing with fidich and so forth (best I can afford) and when time are tough I fall back on JW. I like them all. As far as bars and servants, you’re all right. There is a mass of bad spots and a few good ones. My definition (learned from dad) is a bar you can sit in and relax. I only drank in a bar once with dad, but he just sat down, dropped his pack of luckys on the bar, ordered his scotch and visibly relaxed. He taught me how to sip (contrary to the shot guzzler kids I hung out with), and I do that to this day. My point is – relax. If you have a bartender who’s antagonistic, do the best you can to enjoy your drink and find another place. Otherwise, chat with him. They usually take the time to listen if they’re any good, and getting exactly what you want is no harder than what the pros here say. Order a scotch neat with a water back, or even “can I have a fidich neat with a cup of ice on the side?” Both would work in my experience and it’s not really that hard. I can tell you pouring out a good scotch would break my heart. Probably I would ask that he drain off the ice into another glass and bring me a second one minus the ice. By the time the second one was gone, the first one would be fine. Most of all drinking at a bar should be sans stress. So relax and understand that there are misunderstandings. Try to be clear while you’re still sober and you’ll get what you want.
Good thread! Thanks to all.
02 Dec 2009 at 10:40 am 51. Frumpulent Grumpton
“And if, as a bartender, you’ve received an order for a Ketel One ’straight up’, you should probably check with your customer to make sure they’re looking for chilled vodka and vermouth, and not a glass of warm vodka.”
I think you mean, “a Ketel One Martini”. Where did the Vermouth request come from?
02 Dec 2009 at 11:18 am 52. John Claude
I think you mean a Ketel One Kangaroo.